The Darwin Exception

because it's not always survival of the fittest – sometimes the idiots get through

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Verdict Watch

Posted by thedarwinexception on July 5, 2011

Yes, I know, I’m way behind. I have three days worth of testimony ready to go, I just need to edit and do some research and then I’ll post them.

But I wanted to say something about the verdict watch!! And I really wanted to get everyone’s opinions:

What do you think the verdict will be?

How long do you think the jury will be out??

I am leaning towards guilty – First degree murder under the theory of Felony Murder (no premeditation), and I’m thinking the jury will be out until Thursday – only because I won’t be here Thursday – Paul has an appointment for a bone scan in Burlington.

And I do have one observation from the closing arguments. Ashton was talking about the chloroform levels in the trunk – and how the levels were “shockingly high”. And they were shockingly high even after George and Cindy aired the car out for hours and hours, and even after the car sat in the forensics bay, and Ashton speculated bout “Gee – how high would those levels have been as the car sat at Johnson’s Towing Yard?”

Which is a good questions. How high would they have been?

Because, if you remember correctly, George aid that there was active maggot activity in the trash bag. He spoke about the “crackling” sound the maggots made when the bag was lifted out of the trunk and Simon Birch said “There’s your smell…”

Which would mean that the flies – even in that chloroform saturated trunk – the one with the levels so high that even after being aired out for several days the levels were “shockingly high”– could complete their life cycles.

Which is impossible.

I’m not an entomologist – so I asked some of the fine folks in AFCA (the smartest people in the world) about this. And I got replies that assured me that fly’s are affected by chloroform, in fact entomologists use chloroform to kill insects.

Oh yeah.  We used special jars from Fisher Scientific, they had a
container of chloroform inside to snuff bugs. Like a tiny gas chamber,
with a cotton ball bed for them to lie down on and take their last tiny
breaths. Of course, it was 100% chloroform fumes in there. Yes, kids
could order chloroform by mail back then. And cyanide, there were
cyanide jars also, now that I think about it. Probably needed an adult

Parent’s signature if underage ——->  “Denny’s Mom”

Arty also sent me this link:

Chloroform can cause increase in water loss for insects, possibly by
removing a protective waxy layer

Arty’s Link –

So – its a puzzlement. I think if Baez was a better lawyer, he would have questioned how the trunk could have been filled with chloroform, yet allow the insects to complete their life cycles – or at least asked the entomologists what they thought about that. I mean maybe ti’s nothing. Maybe there was in no way enough chloroform in the trunk to affect incects. But – if I’m speculating aobut it, I’d hate to think any of the jurors were. I don’t like juries that speculate and have unanswered questions.
And that’s why I am so far behind in posting testimony. I get lost in these tangents because I can’t let shit go and I have to research everything.


15 Responses to “Verdict Watch”

  1. Sue said

    Good point about the maggots in presence of chloroform not being able to live. How about the trash was in there first, maggots developed into flies then later she puts Caylee’s bag in there? Or would the flies have croaked too?

    I’m not really all that smart as far as the verdict stipulations. I’m just hoping the jury is not hung. Is that the same as an acquital? I told you I wasn’t smart in legal crap. My uneducated opinion is murder in the first degree but I don’t think the jury will go that far. So I’d say murder in the second degree. I don’t know about the rest of the charges. How long will it take: Friday, because I’m going to MD and will be disconnected from TV and Net.

  2. Suzanne said

    Hmm. Two things. When the authorities did their vacuum of the trunk, this was AFTER Cindy et al. had done their own cleaning of the trunk. So even if there had been dead flies scattered about, the vacuuming would have got rid of them. Apart from the single fly leg. What if .. the flies had already been in the bag when it was tossed into the trunk – wasn’t it tossed in there from the dumpster? Or was it there already? What if the remnants of cheese and whatever else were similar to the constituents of adipocere .. that would explain why there were were no initial colonies of bluebottles. So – a) The chloroform prohibits flies from gathering and breeding. b) the trunk prevented flies from entering … meanwhile the chloroform evaporated in those few days.

    Incidentally – why was the LE note about Casey using chloroform on Caylee not more prominent in evidence?

    As for whether or not Casey is guilty – I’m struggling with putting my personal feelings to one side. However, all the circumstantial evidence, as Dr. G. pointed out, points directly to Casey. I think it was premeditated. I think it was a deliberate attempt to deprive her grandparents of their beautiful granddaughter and to free herself of responsibilities. The duct tape was firmly fixed to Caylee’s face. Caylee was dumped like trash. Casey was mad that everyone was thinking about Caylee and not HER – remember that chilling tape from the jail. Anyway even if she does receive the death sentence, she’s not going to be put to death any time soon. The Death Row queue in FLA is very, very long.

  3. V. said

    I have moved from thinking it was an accident, handled as poorly as possible, to something like second degree murder (whatever is beyond voluntary manslaughter, anyway.)

    The two things I cannot reconcile are the duct tape, and Casey’s journal entry five days after Caylee was last seen alive: “I have no regrets, just a bit worried. I just want for everything to work out okay. I completely trust my own judgment. I know that I made the right decision.”

    If it was a drowning accident (which is what the defense claims; they aren’t saying it was a, “chloroform her, stick her in the trunk with her mouth taped, and leave her until she dies” accident), even if Casey didn’t immediately call 911, I still don’t understand why we’re supposed to think George wouldn’t call 911 and Cindy immediately. It’s a leap I just can’t make.

    And if it was a drowning accident, the duct tape makes no sense to me. Wrap Caylee’s dead body in a garbage bag, sure. Tape up the garbage bag, sure. But why tape up Caylee?

    Casey hasn’t acted like a grieving person would act at any point along the timeline, and the journal entry highlights something is very wrong with her thinking. She hasn’t clarified what the “right decision” was, especially in light *she knew Caylee was missing* on the date of the entry. It doesn’t sound like the anguish of someone who has been forced to cover up the accidental death of her daughter– it doesn’t sound like anything except the psychopathic thinking of someone who sees other people as obstacles to manipulate or remove rather than human beings.

    I am in complete agree with the Prosecution’s closing arguments: she’s a pathological liar who changed her story every time new evidence emerged. If it were an accident, why did she maintain the fiction of abduction right up until Caylee’s skeletonized remains were found?

  4. Nay said

    Kim……today sucks with the jury verdict.

    Can’t wait till KC walks the Florida streets living her “Bella Vita”


  5. Recovering Attorney said


    Are you dumbfounded by the verdict? I am. If you’re still reviewing the trial (and I certainly wouldn’t blame you if you’ve totally washed your hands of this mess), what was the circumstantial evidence charge? It’s clear the jury didn’t comprehend it or reasonable doubt (even though I heard that one, the standard charge, which is plain as day, so why don’t people get it?). Sad day for Caylee and our justice system.

  6. Suzanne said


    However I’m wondering if the jury would have come to a different verdict had the death penalty not been on the table. I agree that making such a drastic decision to call someone guilty when they are likely to be killed on the strength of it would make a lot of people think twice. Too many wrong capital convictions in the past not to be extra cautious.

    Take away the death penalty, and you remove what some might feel is a barrier to correct judgement on the part of the jury. There was certainly one member of the jury who wasn’t in favour of the death penalty – didn’t she say judgement belongs to God?

  7. Not surprised at the verdict. Baez did everything he could to raise reasonable doubt in his summation. Even though I believe she was chloroforming Caylee and stuffing her in the trunk when she was out partying she came back one morning to find her dead.

    George has a hand in this for sure as an ex cop he would know what to do to make the physical evidence disappear and what about Cindy saying she did those computer searches because her dog was sleepy and the the prosecutors proved she was really at work when she said she was home. Liar.

    Baez threw the entire family under the bus and told the jury Casey was a liar.

    He, Baez was crazy as a fox.

    Now will she walk on Thursday for time served or will she have to do another year in the state pen? Consecutively or concurrently? We will find out.

  8. V. said

    The death penalty wasn’t on the table to charge her with aggravated child abuse and aggravated manslaughter. I guess wrapping duct tape around your child’s mouth, sticking her in a plastic bag, and dumping her in a swamp will be the latest thing in responsible child-rearing?

  9. After discussing this with the Mrs., mine not yours, the jury could have just got sick and tired of this and after being sequestered for almost 2 months and having to listen to this [bovine fecal matter] and they said, hey there ain’t a case.

    Jury fatigue could be what happened.

  10. Suzanne said

    “The death penalty wasn’t on the table to charge her with aggravated child abuse and aggravated manslaughter.”

    You’re right of course. Maybe I’m trying to find some kind of sense in how the jury read the evidence. It makes no sense that she is found not guilty of anything apart from the lies to law enforcement.

    So many people’s lives have been destroyed or fractured by this woman’s actions, and yet – she walks free, with not a care in the world and not a single ache of regret.

    She does have a somewhat large tattoo on her shoulder though so she will be recognised unless she tries to get a skin graft. I don’t think she’ll be having an easy time of things and I doubt she’s thought that far yet. Living at home? I think not. Moving away? Tattoo might limit her options. Live abroad? This trial went global.

  11. Lisa said

    I am so disappointed in our justice system right now 😦

    The jury spent a mere 10 hours deliberating a case that took 6 weeks to present and was heavy on forensics. And they didnt ask to see ONE PIECE of evidence or ask to have ANY testimony read back. Jury instructions are clear in that they are to review all evidence and testimony before coming to a decision and that was not done.

    Baez said he has an “escape plan” for casey when she is released and said something about the west coast. Those of you in that area better steer clear! There is soon to be a highly narcissistic sociopath on the loose – and on the prowl for “boys.”

    I’m going to go be sick now.

  12. Jenn said

    There are just some people who should never be jurors. I don’t think there is anything that the state could have done differently to have gotten those people to convict her.
    Of course there are cases full of reasonable doubt. This isn’t one of them. Nothing reasonable about looking at all of the information and coming to the conclusion that Caylee’s death was not a result of Casey’s actions. Those jurors didn’t ask to see one piece of evidence. And apparently one of the jurors is claiming that voting not guilty made her ‘sick’ and that she ‘never said she was innocent.’ If one or more of them had thought her criminally responsible they could have convicted her of lesser charges. My god, they even found that she was not guilty of child abuse!
    The biggest unanswered question for me is if so many of them were conflicted, why on earth did they not say ‘hey, we can’t come to a conclusion’ and let the state give it another shot during a new trial? Now she gets to walk away scott free. How could anyone who thinks she is not innocent vote to acquit her of all serious charges?

  13. The Baez team will probably relocate her to Pahrump NV which is the Malone of the west. We have some many people here that have no known means of support they must be in the witness protection program.

  14. Ligita said

    TOTALLY disappointed with the verdict!! Geez, and now she’ll be out Sunday, June 17th… I hope everyone that can sue Casey will!!
    And by the way Kim – from your post of July 2nd:
    Today started with a side bar. I swear we are getting into Ito numbers –w e need an update on the total from our friend Ligita.
    Total of sidebars for the trial was 271!

  15. Simply Unbelievable said

    Baez made his bed, now he has to lay in it. It’s his turn now to deal with the out of prison narcissistic sociopath in his everyday life. Let’s see if he and his family as well as the other defense team people can shake her out of their lives!

    Their Karma is about to unfold!

    Go get them, Casey!

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